This particular writer believes that the “rapture” (1 Thess 4:16-17) is the same as the first resurrection. Eph 5:27 says the church shall be without spot and blameless. Elders and overseers have to be blameless. This subject requires intense study because there are no specific verses that say the “rapture” occurs before or after the Great Tribulation. Most practicing Christians believe in a post-Trib “rapture.”
http://www.warsofgod.com/01_firstresurrection.html this article supports a post trib “rapture”
The below video supports a post trib rapture – the only thing is the presenter does not believe in the 7 year tribulation.
What would be strong evidence toward a post Trib “rapture”
- The current world situation appears to indicate that we are at the tail end of the 7 year Tribulation period. Recent news articles or internet posts indicate a massive buildup of troops near Russia along with attempts to disrupt the Trump inauguration on Jan 20.
- Revelation 7:14-17King James Version (KJV)14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
- Revelation 20:4-6King James Version (KJV)4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Titus 1:6-7New International Version (NIV) 6 An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe[a] and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. 7 Since an overseer manages God’s household, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain.
http://www.warsofgod.com/03_satan_in_heaven.html this seems to indicate that Satan is thrown down halfway during the 7 year tribulation to wage war on earth. Given the state of current events since about 2009-2010, including an increase in lawlessness in the past 3 1/2 years or so, this article would quite possibly be logical. The other signs that make this a viable idea in a church are allowing things that were forbidden, twisting of the scriptures that were used for pristine teachings but now promote something that could be deemed evil, turning into a commercial endeavor (like all of a sudden owning for profit business), etc. The Illuminati could or have been infiltrating what were pristine churches. Civil right of Christians seem to have been eroding since about 2012-2013.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture this is an article with the reasoning and belief.
Some that believe in a post Trib rapture also believe the Millenial Kingdom is in heaven and the earth is laid bare after Armageddon. There is no confirmation or denial that there are survivors of God’s wrath.
If a pre-Trib or mid-Trib rapture were to occur, would earthly Christian professing organizations remain? The third article seems to infer that Jesus comes silently for the church and then publicly with the church the 2nd coming in the case of these two (Matt 24:36 indicates Jesus doesn’t know the hour of His coming and making an invisible appearance would seem to go against this verse). A pre or mid trib “rapture” would be too many complications and questions to be begged.
- Assume that all true Christians, dead or alive, are raptured. What happens to those that come to Christ during the 7 year tribulation? (note: this time period is not really crystal clear). http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/23-reasons-to-believe-in-a-rapture-before-the-great-tribulation seems to be a pretty extensive reasoning.
- In this article, it points out that those that survive the Great Tribulation are in Christ’s Millenial Kingdom on earth. However, Rev 7:15-17 line up with entrance into the Holy City described in Rev 21:1-4.
- http://www.thepropheticyears.com/reasons/rapture.htm this article seems to state that all “practicing Christian” religions will go through the tribulation. This would line up with fall of Babylon occurring just after the Great Tribulation. Again, the current world situation seems to indicate that the Tribulation may be in progress or at least be midway through.
- Does that mean there are really no true Christians on earth that are alive? Doubtful but they are or will be tested. Zechariah 13:9 is refining the third part through the fire.Zechariah 13:9King James Version (KJV)9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
- Given that the “alive in Christ meet in the clouds,” there have been no accounts of people vanishing into thin air. One argument against a pre-Trib rapture.
- The common thing is that the pre-Trib believers profess there is a difference between the “rapture” and the “first resurrection” and they also believe the millennial kingdom is on earth (those that profess a post-Trib rapture often believe the millennial kingdom is in heaven).
- Rev 20:4-6 defines the first resurrection. This line of thought would indicate the resurrected dead join the survivors of the Great Tribulation. The issue is that people have been slain in the name of Christ for nearly 2000 years and continue to be.
- They say that there would be no time to separate the sheep and the goats as written in Matt 25:32-41. This verse indicates judgment day and lines up with Rev 20:12.
- The possibility of a mid-Trib rapture is more likely given the current world situation. Examination:
- The Tribulation could have possibly started in Jan 2013 and the midpoint (the start of the 1360 days) is quite possible in the summer of 2016.
- Erosion of rights of Christians and Jews. Prior to this, there was no complaining about celebration of Christmas (some non-Trinitarians don’t celebrate it but they never went to court to have it removed and Jews never complained either) or Hanukkah and some complained and managed to have them stopped. The generic “happy holidays” is politically correct.
- Right wing Christians have been sued for not catering to LGBT. The problem is this is a double standard because if a Muslim refuses to cater to LGBT, nothing is done.
- It is OK to talk about killing police and to glorify the street gang way of life but it is considered an outrage to pray in public.
- The tail end of the hour of judgment appears to have been started at that time with the Jehovah’s Witnesses being exposed for not reporting child molestation to the authorities (In California, a total of $42 million in damages have been awarded to date for victims abused as youth; in 2016, the Australian Commission investigated 1006 cases not reported since 1955 and they will reconvene in March 2017). In the past two years, some other non-Trinitarian religions have had some internal conflict that has been made public to a limited audience. Finally, there is an expose of the abuses of the Church of Scientology that has been public since the end of 2016 (although not Christian, there are some striking similarities of these abuses vs some professing Christian organizations).
- The midpoint – shift to conservative governments.
- Rodrigo Duterte was elected President of the Philippines in May 2016 and swore in during the summer. There was an aggressive campaign of eliminating drug lords and prosecuting pushers and users (there were some killings by the government but also the criminal element and vigilantes used this as an excuse to silence witnesses) and exposing police and government offiicials who cater to them. He denounced Obama and the current government and professed allegiance to Putin and China and Trump.
- Vladimir Putin appears has a tough stance on radical Islam.
- Donald Trump was elected President of the United States and will have a Republican dominated Congress.
- Some European governments have withdrawn from the European Union. Great Britain and France appear to support Trump.
- The conservative governments appear to want to avert World War 3 and some outgoing liberal governments apparent want to start it since they are owned by the elite (who make money off wars and bankrupt governments).
- In the Wikipedia article, evidently Satan and his angels are thrown out of heaven at the point where the 1360 day period starts. The issue with this is that it involves an infiltration of religions in an effort to corrupt or apostatize. Also people who are leaving churches and pursuing more worldly things. This is a last ditch effort to prevent the church from being cleaned up. The churches that are not of God will go about their ways and not change, and people will be plucked out of them. Those that are truly of God will heed to the signs and warnings and will clean up their acts. In the first case, those who are expelled or choose to disassociate will do so because they realize their organization is corrupt and goes against their moral standards or the bible; consequently, they will seek a church that adheres more closely to the bible. In the second case, the truly wicked will be expelled or leave on their own.
- After this cleanup, the true Christians will rise to heaven as written in 1 Thess 4:16-17 to be spared the Tribulation. The churches that are true to God could possibly cease to exist on earth. Christian-professing organizations will still remain on earth but their members will undergo tribulation. It is also possible at this time that the remaining organizations will unite as the “one world religion” and anyone who enters it will receive the mark of the beast.
- The bible specifically says “children of tribes of Israel” are part of the 144,000 in Rev 7:2-5.
- During the last half of the Tribulation, there will be those that will continue to be “beheaded in the name of Jesus” (as written in Rev 20:4-5). At the end of the Tribulation, all those “beheaded” will be resurrected with the survivors of the Great Tribulation and enter the Holy City. This has to happen before God’s wrath where Babylon falls and the current earth is laid bare. It is also quite clear that the second death has no power over those in the first resurrection.
- The Tribulation could have possibly started in Jan 2013 and the midpoint (the start of the 1360 days) is quite possible in the summer of 2016.
- Pre-Trib or Mid-Trib still raises questions whether the first resurrection occurs in two parts or not.
The church would have to be pure before the “rapture” in all cases (Eph 5:27). The “hour of judgment” in Rev 14:7 is exposing misdeeds of various religious leaders and cleaning the church in general. The actions are previously mentioned under “Mid-Trib Rapture.” Titus 1:6-7 states “elders and overseers will be blameless.” The bible says to expel the wicked and that means both leaders and members alike. Also, not all churches are perfect so sometimes it makes better sense to remain and attend worship but pay attention to detail on what is being taught from the pulpit.
1 Corinthians 5:11-13New International Version (NIV)
11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[
Jesus does come down to earth after the Great Tribulation. History and the bible seem to favor a post-Trib. The wrath of God commences at the end of the Great Tribulation according to various timelines. It is biblically clear that the survivors of the Great Tribulation experience no more pain and sorrow and enter the Holy City. It is also biblically clear that those “beheaded in the name of Christ” are the first resurrection and reign with Christ 1000 years and that the 2nd death has no power. It is also clear in Rev 14:3 that the 144,000 are already in heaven BEFORE the fall of Babylon in Rev 14:8. Rev 14:12-20 indicates that there may be more coming to Christ during the millennium and the last verse coincides with the consuming by fire of those outside God’s camp at the end of the millennium (Rev 20:8-9).
The 1000 year period: https://religiousrealist.wordpress.com/2016/06/23/the-1000-year-period/
Closely examine the following:
The articles mention Satan and his angels being thrown down to the earth during the 1260 period in Daniel 12:11. The below passage would seem dispute this:
Isaiah 14:12King James Version (KJV)
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Rev 12 describes the war in heaven between Michael and his angels vs the dragon and its angels. So when exactly were they cast out of heaven? The word “serpent” goes along with the deception of Adam and Eve.
https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/revelation-12/ an article on the events of Rev 12-14 including the Great Tribulation. It also indicates Satan had more than one fall from heaven, including the 1260 day period. False prophets have been in existence well before the time of Christ (Exodus 32 about Aaron telling the people to make a golden calf while Moses was still on the mount).
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17King James Version (KJV)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The above indicates the dead in Christ rise first and THEN the alive will be caught up in the clouds. It is also a public appearance of Christ vs a silent return for the church. Also remember that Matt 24:36 states that Christ doesn’t know the hour of His coming.
The Rapture has not happened yet. There are sources that have been claiming for the past 2 years that Sept 23 seems to be the date. In 2015 the Pope and Obama met behind closed doors.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/will-2017-solar-eclipse-cause-secret-planet-called-nibiru-destroy/ is an article about the Aug 21 great eclipse and the supposed collision of Nibiru with earth on Sept 23. These things often turn out to be hoaxes.
What is known at this point is North Korea threatening nuclear strikes on Guam and Hawaii. The world is on the brink of WW3 at this point.
Some are even now saying the 7 year tribulation is between 2017-2024. This would be a pre-Trib line of thinking.
Some post-Trib proponents believe we are in the Tribulation NOW and are most likely in the 1260 day period given world events.
Here is something about the Great Tribulation that would put the matter to bed. There is also a sign of the end of it and the coming of Jesus.
Matthew 24:21-22King James Version (KJV)
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
Matthew 24:29-30King James Version (KJV)
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.