There are some religions that believe the 2nd death is cessation to exist.  Mainstream believes in an eternal punishment.  Or is it a combination of both?

We read about famous people who sold their souls to the devil in return for fame and fortune and we also read about Illuminati or elite. Man has 3 parts: body, spirit and soul.  When one dies the spirit returns to God (Eccl 12:7, Matt 27:50 Jesus gives up the ghost).  The soul (our personality) clings to dust when we die; the exception being Jesus because He was resurrected in 3 days.

1 Thessalonians 5:23King James Version (KJV)

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What other verses show that there is a soul?

May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. And may the spirit and soul* and body of you brothers, sound in every respect, be preserved blameless at the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ (NWT of 1 Thess 5:23)

1 Peter 1:9King James Version (KJV)

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.  (the word “souls” is removed in NWT gray version).

Rev 20:4 (NWT gray version).

And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand.+ And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ+ for 1,000 years.

Ecclesiastes 12:7King James Version (KJV)

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Psalm 119:25King James Version (KJV)

25 My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word (note: the word “soul” is removed in NWT gray).

So who is eternally tormented? Satan, the false prophets and the beast are certain based on Rev 19:20 and 20:10.  Those with the mark of the beast are tormented with no rest and the smoke rises forever as written in Rev 14:10-11 and in the presence of the Lamb and holy angels.

Revelation 14:9-11King James Version (KJV)

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 19:20King James Version (KJV)

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10King James Version (KJV)

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 

Of note, those with the mark of the beast could await Satan also.  The general assumption is the lake of fire does not exist until the millennium has ended. From all the posts, it could indicate the 2nd resurrection could occur in 2 parts: 1.  The beast, false prophets and those with the mark of the beast coukld be resurrected in Rev 20:8-9.   2. The remaining dead are resurrected for the final judgement.

For the purposes of discussion the engulfment by fire in Rev 20:8-9 is a physical one of those outside the Holy City and the dead are resurrected from the sea and Hades in Rev 20:13 for a “white throne judgment.”

Revelation 20:14-15King James Version (KJV)

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire (some translations refer to it as “Hades” or the common grave).

Revelation 21:8King James Version (KJV)

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

What about the rest?  Rev 20:14 would indicate “death and hell” are destroyed since they are places.  If we read Rev 21:8 it could indicate people that don’t have the mark of the beast are part of this group.  To refresh one’s memory from other blogs, 1 John 3:15 says he who hates brother is a murderer.  1 John 4:20 also says one who hates brother is a liar. It would also make sense that an unbeliever may otherwise be a good person.  People say “if God is loving, why would He let someone burn for eternity?”

Here is what Jesus has to say (remember that in Matt 25, Jesus is separating the sheep from the goats).

Matthew 25:41-46 King James Version (KJV)

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The verses between 42-46 imply those that didn’t help their fellow human being entered into everlasting punishment.  What if these people were otherwise honest individuals, God-fearing, devout, but their only crimes were that they didn’t help someone in time of need?  Would their souls be tormented forever, would the “everlasting punishment” be ceasing to exist, or would they have a stint of torment before finally ceasing to exist?  Would it be fair for someone whose crime is having a pound of marijuana to receive the same punishment as a person who savagely murdered an entire family from an infant to the grandparents (with no remorse)?

Is Hades the stint of torment before ceasing to exist? Some religions refer to it as the Grave. And who is in this section? Those with the mark of the beast? The unrighteous dead? Those deceived by Satan for fame and fortune?

Luke 16:22-23New International Version (NIV)

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Would those with the mark of the beast also receive torment in Hades like what the rich man experienced in Luke 16:22-24 and would it continue on after judgment?

As discovered during another topic about the time between Jesus’ death and resurrection, there are some that believe He went down to Hades for 3 days.  The false prophet and beast are confined in the “chains of darkness” (Tartarus) until Judgment Day.  Jesus has the key to Hades and also in Rev 20:1-2 an angel throws Satan into the deepest pit and locks him there for 1000 years (possibly Jesus gives the key).

(update)

Satan is not a physical being nor does he die a physical death. He is imprisoned in the the Abyss from the start of the millennium (Rev 20:1-3).

The first beast originates from the sea and the second beast from the earth and is the mediator.  According to another article, the first beast appears to be the group called the elite and the second beast would be what controls the financial system and governments of the world.  They are not physical beings nor die a physical death.  They have influence on major religions, the media, the entertainment industry, governments of the world and the world banking system.  Their henchmen would most likely be Satan’s angels influencing people in these organizations.  Most likely they are the ones imprisoned in the “chains of darkness” in 2 Peter 2:1-4.

Contrary to popular belief, Satan does not torment people in Hades before or during the millennium.  The beast and false prophets remain on earth until Judgment Day and also it would appear they are imprisoned at that time.

So since neither Satan nor the beast or false prophets experience a physical death, Rev 20:10 is valid that their torment is forever. Remember that Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven for rebelling against God.

Given the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16:22-23, it is a possibility that those with the mark of the beast may indeed experience a pre-judgment torment.  Rev 14:10-11 states they are tormented in the presence of the holy angels and the lamb. Those with the mark of the beast also experience physical death even long before Judgment Day. Given that Rev 13:16-17 indicates the mark is on the right hand or the forehead and Catholicism is only 1900 or so years old, this time frame is short, relatively speaking.

Those that are deceived at the end of the millennium are physically consumed by fire in Rev 20:8-10.

It would make logical sense that those having the mark of the beast and those deceived by Satan at the end of the millennium would go straight to the lake of fire at the time of the 2nd resurrection.  They already sold themselves to Satan so their doom is sealed.

The remainder face the final judgment (Rev 20:12-15).  The entity called Hades is merely destroyed in the Lake of Fire (Rev 20:14). Those found in the Book of Life enter the Holy City after it has come down from heaven (Rev 21:27).  The remainder are thrown in the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).

The teaching of the 2nd death being ceasing to exist was originally taught by the Seventh Day Adventists (originally Millerites in the mid 19th  century); consequently, this teaching is not even 300 years old.  “Christians” were taught for over 16 centuries that eternal torment happens to those who die in sin.

God wants all of us to be saved.  Satan doesn’t.  One would be motivated to do good when eternal life is presented.  One does not want to find out the other outcome.  What if one was led to believe that he or she would merely be destroyed for living a sinful life and it turns out that eternal torment happens (it may or may not be a literal burning of fire: it could be reliving an event in one’s  life that was regretted)?  You reap what you sow.

A certain episode of Twilight Zone has a man who sold his soul to the devil in exchange for immortality. He did things like run in front of trains to collect the insurance money and got rather wealthy.  In the end he throws his wife off of a building and expected the death penalty but got a life sentence instead: he backs out of his contract and immediately dies.

There was also an episode where a criminal was killed by a bullet.  His so-called punishment was having women and drinks at his beckon call and the torment was that he got tired of getting everything he wanted.

 

 

 

 

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